"Pedestals Prevent Friendships"

Don't Be Afraid of People

Dec 07, 2023

In 2008, musician Derek Sivers sold his company CD Baby for $22 million dollars.

But when he was struggling early in his career, he went to a conference in Las Vegas to promote his music. He met as many people as he could. He talked to music managers. He attended the panels.

But he said there was a problem. “I had these people up on a pedestal. I was terrified of them. The stakes were high. These were people who could make my career.”

So on a lunch break, he went to relax at the pool. He dipped his feet in and finally got a few minutes to himself. Then a guy sat next to him. They talked about the gorgeous girls in bikinis and how weird Las Vegas was. They got along right away, as friends.

Sivers thought his new friend was another musician. But the guy was actually a VP at one of the biggest record labels. They stayed in touch. As he grew his business, Sivers eventually got some of his most successful clients from his pool friend.

“If I would have known who he was in advance,” Sivers wrote, “I never would have had a real conversation with him.”

“I would have been awkward and self-conscious, trying to promote myself. But because I didn’t know, I could connect on a personal level, and be a real friend.”

Now let me tell you about a tiny thought experiment with pedestals.

The Janitor and Lawyer

Imagine this: a janitor and lawyer are in line at Starbucks.

The janitor’s wearing a dirty grey uniform, the lawyer a crisp navy suit. They don’t know each other, but both guys are in their mid 30s. They both also happen to have a wife and young boy.

While in line behind the lawyer, the janitor thinks, I wonder what this guy does for a living. He’s looks my age. But he seems like he’s doing better. Let’s ask him.

But because of the suit, the janitor hesitates and never taps the lawyer on the shoulder. He idolized the guy without even meeting him! But they had things in common: a wife, an irritating infant, and just being in the longest line ever at Starbucks.

Just because the lawyer was dressed fancier doesn’t mean that he’s too supreme to socialize with the janitor. But the janitor thought so.

A pedestal is an artificial mental barrier that barricades you from life. From conversations, friendships, and opportunities.

Sivers said that there’s a common misconception: you only talk about business in business meetings. But he said he was wrong: “I’ve realized that we make real connections by talking about anything else, and just clicking as friends.”

His advice: “People send business to people they like. So beware of putting people on a pedestal. It can prevent a real friendship.” [1]

Now, let me tell you a short story about how I realized this in 2023.

Know someone who might like this?

Jacked Nerds

In February, I found this guy Jack on Twitter. He posted about self-improvement, Andrew Huberman, and was a former athlete like me. He was close to my age and seemed really cool. We briefly texted in the DM’s.

But in my mind, I put him on a pedestal. I almost thought to myself, this guy has 15,000 followers on Twitter. He makes money online. I’m not at his level. I don’t deserve to talk to him because I have zero Twitter followers. [2]

Then I saw him post a thread about the benefits of starting a podcast. You leap over the awkwardness of networking and just get to know each other. And if you invite someone on your podcast, it’s a more seductive offer to get them on a call.

So I took his advice. I voice messaged him on Twitter, asking if he wanted to be my first guest. He was honored. We connected as buddies, as jacked nerds. Now we still stay in touch. [3]

Sivers was right. By putting Jack on a pedestal, I prevented a friendship. I compared followers like the janitor compared clothes. So now, nothing stops me from reaching out to people—especially age, followers, or money.

When we put people on pedestals in our minds, we make an assumption: this person is better than me for some external reason. But they’re just another human. They eat glucose, crave coffee, and have their own worries, just like you.

As the great physicist Richard Feynman wrote, there’s no “difference between a man with a uniform on, and with the uniform off.” Everyone is more like you than you think. [4]

So remember this: you are worthy enough to connect with anyone. Don’t be afraid of people.

After reading his book, I sent Sivers an email. I introduced myself and told him that I loved his writing. He replied to me the next day.

Notes

[1] I found this story in Sivers’ book, Your Music and People. You can read the pedestals post on his blog: “Pedestals prevent friendships”

[2] We’re all worthy to speak to. But it’s a good rule of thumb to respect people’s time as if they were a CEO making $1,000 an hour. Especially when everyone gets a million notifications every day. So it’s about respecting people while also assuming that you’re worthy of a conversation.

It also helps to assume everyone is shy:

“Everyone is shy. Other people are waiting for you to introduce yourself to them; they are waiting for you to send them an email; they are waiting for you to ask them on a date. Go ahead.” - Kevin Kelly

[3] I paused my podcast after three episodes. It made me realize that I love the research process, but I didn’t love all the calls and logistics around podcasting.

So I channeled that energy into writing and reading. I read more biographies and cool books and started using Billy Oppenheimer’s notecard system. I love it so far. I could easily see myself doing this for a long time, which is a good sign.

[4] Quote from “Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman!”